Originally posted by

Michael Stratton

Jon,

Knowing you personally, and having disagreements with you, I am still surprised at how rude and vile you can be towards others. Granted, your opinion is yours, and you're more than welcome to it, but do you really have to bash emo kids? It may not seem like a big deal to some, but to those emo kids, as well as those of us who actually care about people, it's salt in an open wound, friend.

Also, the generalization that the only people who hang around Fry St. are "whores, drug dealers, drunken steroid users..." is grossly over simplified. There are many kinds of people that hang out at Fry St., as is their right as human beings. I'm not saying that the types you listed don't hang out there, but rather that you should be careful about who you paint with the same brush.

And what's so wrong with being a hippie? In case you were unaware, and being so young and ill-informed, I'll "assume" you were, hippies are just another kind of people who have helped bring forth change in this country. If it wasn't for hippies, we wouldn't have the sixties. Or some really great music.

All joking aside, Jon, just beware of who you call what, and how you label them, because one day, it's gonna bite you in the ass. And that day, I won't do a thing to stop it.

Originally posted by

Michael Stratton

Jon,

Knowing you personally, and having disagreements with you, I am still surprised at how rude and vile you can be towards others. Granted, your opinion is yours, and you're more than welcome to it, but do you really have to bash emo kids? It may not seem like a big deal to some, but to those emo kids, as well as those of us who actually care about people, it's salt in an open wound, friend.

Also, the generalization that the only people who hang around Fry St. are "whores, drug dealers, drunken steroid users..." is grossly over simplified. There are many kinds of people that hang out at Fry St., as is their right as human beings. I'm not saying that the types you listed don't hang out there, but rather that you should be careful about who you paint with the same brush.

And what's so wrong with being a hippie? In case you were unaware, and being so young and ill-informed, I'll "assume" you were, hippies are just another kind of people who have helped bring forth change in this country. If it wasn't for hippies, we wouldn't have the sixties. Or some really great music.

All joking aside, Jon, just beware of who you call what, and how you label them, because one day, it's gonna bite you in the ass. And that day, I won't do a thing to stop it.

Originally posted by

Michael Stratton

Jon,

Knowing you personally, and having disagreements with you, I am still surprised at how rude and vile you can be towards others. Granted, your opinion is yours, and you're more than welcome to it, but do you really have to bash emo kids? It may not seem like a big deal to some, but to those emo kids, as well as those of us who actually care about people, it's salt in an open wound, friend.

Also, the generalization that the only people who hang around Fry St. are "whores, drug dealers, drunken steroid users..." is grossly over simplified. There are many kinds of people that hang out at Fry St., as is their right as human beings. I'm not saying that the types you listed don't hang out there, but rather that you should be careful about who you paint with the same brush.

And what's so wrong with being a hippie? In case you were unaware, and being so young and ill-informed, I'll "assume" you were, hippies are just another kind of people who have helped bring forth change in this country. If it wasn't for hippies, we wouldn't have the sixties. Or some really great music.

All joking aside, Jon, just beware of who you call what, and how you label them, because one day, it's gonna bite you in the ass. And that day, I won't do a thing to stop it.

Originally posted by

Keith Black

It ain't like Fry Street's gonna fundamentally change with a McDonalds and CVS there. You are still gonna have the same nappy headed hos soliciting and you'll have more crack heads looking for foil and brillo pads in the CVS. Just because you don't go out and don't have any friends it's not like normal people don't. What's your problem anyway, does 7-11 not have the ultra absorbent maxi pads you need for your bleeding sphincter and dripping lesions? You and your D&D buddies should have plenty of fun cruising the aisles of CVS looking at shiny things and throwing your fast food wrappers on the ground. No one ever forced you to go there anyway so when people complain about all the inevitable problems that will occur, don't make the argument that nobody forces you to go there because it applies here hundred-fold. Also don't write articles talking about free enterprise and good old American small business because you just sold out what little integrity and dignity you might have accidently absorbed through your soiled underpants and rubber sheets. It's too bad Planned parenthood didn't clean up your mother's ovaries long before United Equities "cleans up Fry Street."

Originally posted by

James

You should catch a bunch of crap for writing an ill informed article such as this. Maybe if you would have experienced just a little bit of the college experience that Denton has to offer you would not be so down on Fry Street. The color on Fry Street is amazing. I am an Alumni and have many fond memories on Fry Street from my 21st birthday party to just hangin out with my fraternity brothers. The Tomato is a landmark for Denton, the Tavern is a place where people go and meet for a beer or watch a ball game. Cool Beans is one of the most unique resteraunt/bars I have ever been to it has a friendly neighborhood pub type feel. Large corporations have no place on Fry Street the college experience of UNT is dying and if you had made a few friends during your stay at the college you may agree with this, I am sorry that you are anti-social but do not take the experience of Fry Street awya from future UNT students and do not take away the place where so many Alumni have so many great memories!

Originally posted by

James

You should catch a bunch of crap for writing an ill informed article such as this. Maybe if you would have experienced just a little bit of the college experience that Denton has to offer you would not be so down on Fry Street. The color on Fry Street is amazing. I am an Alumni and have many fond memories on Fry Street from my 21st birthday party to just hangin out with my fraternity brothers. The Tomato is a landmark for Denton, the Tavern is a place where people go and meet for a beer or watch a ball game. Cool Beans is one of the most unique resteraunt/bars I have ever been to it has a friendly neighborhood pub type feel. Large corporations have no place on Fry Street the college experience of UNT is dying and if you had made a few friends during your stay at the college you may agree with this, I am sorry that you are anti-social but do not take the experience of Fry Street awya from future UNT students and do not take away the place where so many Alumni have so many great memories!

Originally posted by

Matt

Great Article! I'm fairly confident that most North Texas students (at least the normal ones) agree with you. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't, the drink, tavern, garage sidebar, Riprocks and Lou's and even part of Cool Beans going to remain? All the cool bars are still going to be there (I do miss TJ's though), it's not like its going to change that much.

My friends and I love going out to fry st(thurs and sat are the best nights), but we usually steer clear of what we call the Dark side of fry st, because it's just not our scene. However it was the scene for many types of students and I understand why they are upset, however I do not feel sorry because these changes will be a positive thing for UNT and the majority of it's student population.

I find it so funny that whenever someone brings up the whole save fry st issue no one mentions the fact that most of fry street is going to remain unchanged.

The save fry street movement is a joke (as are most of UNT's counter culture movement) because it does not speak for all the students of North texas as it claims. Rather only reflects the liberal agenda of a small minority of artist, hippe's and other non-traditional students in order to preserve their right to be weird. They have every right to do this, but they don't have a right to shove their culture down everyone else's throats as.

What groups like the Staff of the NT Daily, along with the music and art people don't want everyone to know is that THEY ARE THE BULLIES OF THIS CAMPUS, trying to force us to "keep Denton weird!" Most of us want to go to a normal college, sorry you don't. Sorry UNT is changing to reflect to student body, sorry no one likes jazz, or hookah.

Deal with it!

Originally posted by

Matt

Great Article! I'm fairly confident that most North Texas students (at least the normal ones) agree with you. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't, the drink, tavern, garage sidebar, Riprocks and Lou's and even part of Cool Beans going to remain? All the cool bars are still going to be there (I do miss TJ's though), it's not like its going to change that much.

My friends and I love going out to fry st(thurs and sat are the best nights), but we usually steer clear of what we call the Dark side of fry st, because it's just not our scene. However it was the scene for many types of students and I understand why they are upset, however I do not feel sorry because these changes will be a positive thing for UNT and the majority of it's student population.

I find it so funny that whenever someone brings up the whole save fry st issue no one mentions the fact that most of fry street is going to remain unchanged.

The save fry street movement is a joke (as are most of UNT's counter culture movement) because it does not speak for all the students of North texas as it claims. Rather only reflects the liberal agenda of a small minority of artist, hippe's and other non-traditional students in order to preserve their right to be weird. They have every right to do this, but they don't have a right to shove their culture down everyone else's throats as.

What groups like the Staff of the NT Daily, along with the music and art people don't want everyone to know is that THEY ARE THE BULLIES OF THIS CAMPUS, trying to force us to "keep Denton weird!" Most of us want to go to a normal college, sorry you don't. Sorry UNT is changing to reflect to student body, sorry no one likes jazz, or hookah.

Deal with it!

Originally posted by

Matt

Great Article! I'm fairly confident that most North Texas students (at least the normal ones) agree with you. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't, the drink, tavern, garage sidebar, Riprocks and Lou's and even part of Cool Beans going to remain? All the cool bars are still going to be there (I do miss TJ's though), it's not like its going to change that much.

My friends and I love going out to fry st(thurs and sat are the best nights), but we usually steer clear of what we call the Dark side of fry st, because it's just not our scene. However it was the scene for many types of students and I understand why they are upset, however I do not feel sorry because these changes will be a positive thing for UNT and the majority of it's student population.

I find it so funny that whenever someone brings up the whole save fry st issue no one mentions the fact that most of fry street is going to remain unchanged.

The save fry street movement is a joke (as are most of UNT's counter culture movement) because it does not speak for all the students of North texas as it claims. Rather only reflects the liberal agenda of a small minority of artist, hippe's and other non-traditional students in order to preserve their right to be weird. They have every right to do this, but they don't have a right to shove their culture down everyone else's throats as.

What groups like the Staff of the NT Daily, along with the music and art people don't want everyone to know is that THEY ARE THE BULLIES OF THIS CAMPUS, trying to force us to "keep Denton weird!" Most of us want to go to a normal college, sorry you don't. Sorry UNT is changing to reflect to student body, sorry no one likes jazz, or hookah.

Deal with it!

Originally posted by

Matt

Great Article! I'm fairly confident that most North Texas students (at least the normal ones) agree with you. Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't, the drink, tavern, garage sidebar, Riprocks and Lou's and even part of Cool Beans going to remain? All the cool bars are still going to be there (I do miss TJ's though), it's not like its going to change that much.

My friends and I love going out to fry st(thurs and sat are the best nights), but we usually steer clear of what we call the Dark side of fry st, because it's just not our scene. However it was the scene for many types of students and I understand why they are upset, however I do not feel sorry because these changes will be a positive thing for UNT and the majority of it's student population.

I find it so funny that whenever someone brings up the whole save fry st issue no one mentions the fact that most of fry street is going to remain unchanged.

The save fry street movement is a joke (as are most of UNT's counter culture movement) because it does not speak for all the students of North texas as it claims. Rather only reflects the liberal agenda of a small minority of artist, hippe's and other non-traditional students in order to preserve their right to be weird. They have every right to do this, but they don't have a right to shove their culture down everyone else's throats as.

What groups like the Staff of the NT Daily, along with the music and art people don't want everyone to know is that THEY ARE THE BULLIES OF THIS CAMPUS, trying to force us to "keep Denton weird!" Most of us want to go to a normal college, sorry you don't. Sorry UNT is changing to reflect to student body, sorry no one likes jazz, or hookah.

Deal with it!

Originally posted by

Ryan

"A lot of the whiners who have written to the developer have way too much attitude and lack of respect" and "Is this the way you're supposed to kindly convince somebody to see your point of view?"
~
~For someone who is so critical of others, you may do well to heed your own advice. That is of course if you want others to see "your point of view." Whiners......

Originally posted by

Liptakular

Haha I love my fellow peers. If you'd like more reasons to yell at me, go to my website:

http://www.dumbassth.com

Some things:

-I can assure you, I did not write this article to personally attack anybody nor support any political party. It also was not written to provide facts, which is why it is marked as being an OPINION. I am curious about why people seem so hostile.

Originally posted by

Liptakular

Haha I love my fellow peers. If you'd like more reasons to yell at me, go to my website:

http://www.dumbassth.com

Some things:

-I can assure you, I did not write this article to personally attack anybody nor support any political party. It also was not written to provide facts, which is why it is marked as being an OPINION. I am curious about why people seem so hostile.

-I have no personal vendetta against Fry Street or Save Fry Street, I just never saw in it what so many other people did.

-Hi Michael.

-I never said "nappy headed hos." I am not creative enough to think of something so clever and original.

-Note the hint of sarcasm there.

-I have not wet myself since I was real little, and it was only because I had gotten kicked in the nuts by my friend Josh really hard that day and lost control of my bits and pieces for a moment. It was legendary.

-I do not fund terrorism nor do I support Nazism. I am the kind of American who loves chili and apple pie. All topped with American cheese (credit fot that one goes to Jess).

-I do not have an Oedipal complex. I am still curious as to whether there was a phrase I said wherein one would get that idea, or if the person who wrote that just doesn't have a better insult and/or doesn't know what one is.

-I find it odd that somebody would go to the trouble of insulting somebody they've never met. I used to do that, and then I turned 12.

-I never referred to people in terms of "normal" or "weird." Both parties have their pros and cons but are still primal human beings like everybody else.

-I am not in bed with United Equities. I usually sleep by myself because women don't like me very much. Must be my Quasimodo face.

-Banned from using the term "Emo?" Honey, I wrote the book on banning Emo: http://www.dumbassth.com/ben.html

-Once more, that's http://www.dumbassth.com

Originally posted by

kittyclaw

Children- you need to chill out, Fry st isn't going anywhere, it's a street for gods sake! However, some of the weaker business are moving to different locals. All the old faves that make the scenery for UNT are still going to be there...

and by the way,

how come no one had a pickett sign party when the Jack-in-the-Box was erected?

That is as corporate, and as patriotic as it gets...

....Hippies

Originally posted by

kittyclaw

Haha! that was so creative Sleeper! Keep putting your education to a good use!

Originally posted by

kittyclaw

"sarcasm" spell check.
and...
What?...

NE Way, the CVS technically not be in the space the Tomato is in, it will be in the parking lot behind it!

Originally posted by

James

the hell with cvs and united equities.

the hell with cookie cutter bullshit.


i can assure you that united equities property will be marked by the taggers.


they dont know what they are getting into. wrong place to put up their cookie cutter buildings.

Originally posted by

James

the hell with cvs and united equities.

the hell with cookie cutter bullshit.


i can assure you that united equities property will be marked by the taggers.

what kind of threat was he making? i dont see a threat there. hes just saying that taggers will probably be going after the place because of the recent issues... he didnt make a threat.

they dont know what they are getting into. wrong place to put up their cookie cutter buildings.

Originally posted by

James

the hell with cvs and united equities.

the hell with cookie cutter bullshit.


i can assure you that united equities property will be marked by the taggers.


they dont know what they are getting into. wrong place to put up their cookie cutter buildings.

Originally posted by

Joseph Wyly

Speaking as someone who lives in Austin, knows Jon Liptak, and is somewhat familiar with Fry Street in Denton, I can say with some authority that Fry street developing is NOT a bad thing. Despite Jon's somewhat acerbic and offensive way of putting it, the alteration of Fry Street is actually a good thing. While the corporations are moving in and taking away some of the cool retro vibe away by "blanding" the area, they are also making it more livable for indeendent businesses. United Equities knows that the charm of Fry Street is what makes it a good investment and will not alter its architectural landscape. What will happen is the businesses there will change. The same thing has happened to Guadalupe Street in Austin (or "The Drag" as it is affextionately known). With the sky rocketing real estate prices, some quaint little stores had to pack up and move out. But this did not give way to a bunch of Starbucks and Walden Books. We still have our local head shop and Hookah Bar (Pipes Plus), a couple of alternative literature book stores, a hippie themed pizza place (Mellow Mushroom), and a host of other "Austiny" shops and stores. While the loss of the Tower Records in 2004 was much lamented, it was not the end of keeping Austin weird. So don't worry Emo kids, Fry street will still have independent Coffee Shops for you to muse about Kafka and stores for you to buy skin tight jeans. And as for the Ho's and drug dealers, that just comes with the territory of living in a college town.

Originally posted by

SFS

nice -- that should get posted to the comments section on that page.



On 7/10/07, Mike Cochran wrote:

Dear Jon,

I read your letter to the UNT daily and am concerned that you have mischaracterized Save Fry St, our goals and objectives. We are a group of Denton professionals who are concerned with neighborhood preservation who happen to have pleasant memories of Fry St. We also believe in the power of citizen action and that we must all work to shape the world with positive action, rather than sit back and let it define us.

The insulting letter you refer to in your editorial was not on our website and was apparently written by someone we have never heard of. We really can't be responsible for every student comment out there. From the beginning our group recognized UE had a right to do what they wanted to do on their property and all of our work has been to try to lead them into some positive engagement. We have worked to get certain tax abatements passed for this area, should the developer choose to adaptively re-use the property and save at least part of the structures. Our notion has been that all across the country, sophisticated developers are reusing historic properties by incorporating them new development.

The issue at this point is still appropriate development for this site. The developer is bent on cramming as much onto this lot as he possibly can which would have some negative effect on the surrounding neighborhoods. We have had several meetings with the developers and I do not believe that they have dealt with us in good faith. I am convinced that they are not necessarily evil people, but just lack vision. Twenty-five years of developing strip-malls has taken its toll and their lack of vision will become a permanent mark on our community. You may not live here, but I do and have for 39 years.

You seemed to have some problem with the petition we sponsored. This was for informational purposes, a market survey to see how many people cared about preservation. Whether the signers lived in Denton is irrelevant for this type of petition because the Denton market is much larger than the city limits. It was carefully crafted to not make demands, but suggestions. I was astounded by the results. I have run many petition drives over the years and have never even remotely seen one as successful. Over 10,000 signatures, and to my knowledge, all honest signatures, just asking that historic preservation be considered. There is a statistical breakdown below of the petition signers.

69% live in Denton
of the 31% remaining from outside Denton
50% were from Denton County.

the age breakdown is as follows:
69% aged 18-29
23% aged 30-59
3% aged 60-90
4% - 17 or under

Of the Denton residents of voting age the number of signers is still greater than the number of persons I ever recall voting in a local election.

The development is still not a "done deal". Sure they have torn down the old buildings, but they are having some problems with their permits and their flawed site plan. They tore down the old buildings before they have permission to build the new ones. I believe that the city staff will recommend denial of their variance application because they have ignored some of our city subdivision regulations and development codes in designing their project.

This is a neighborhood preservation issue. I can understand that if it's not your neighborhood, you might not care one way or another what happens, but please, don't denigrate our efforts to try to hang onto some vestiges of our community culture, just because some people you don't like hang out there. I ignore them and you should too.

Mike Cochran
SFS

Originally posted by

SFS

nice -- that should get posted to the comments section on that page.



On 7/10/07, Mike Cochran wrote:

Dear Jon,

I read your letter to the UNT daily and am concerned that you have mischaracterized Save Fry St, our goals and objectives. We are a group of Denton professionals who are concerned with neighborhood preservation who happen to have pleasant memories of Fry St. We also believe in the power of citizen action and that we must all work to shape the world with positive action, rather than sit back and let it define us.

The insulting letter you refer to in your editorial was not on our website and was apparently written by someone we have never heard of. We really can't be responsible for every student comment out there. From the beginning our group recognized UE had a right to do what they wanted to do on their property and all of our work has been to try to lead them into some positive engagement. We have worked to get certain tax abatements passed for this area, should the developer choose to adaptively re-use the property and save at least part of the structures. Our notion has been that all across the country, sophisticated developers are reusing historic properties by incorporating them new development.

The issue at this point is still appropriate development for this site. The developer is bent on cramming as much onto this lot as he possibly can which would have some negative effect on the surrounding neighborhoods. We have had several meetings with the developers and I do not believe that they have dealt with us in good faith. I am convinced that they are not necessarily evil people, but just lack vision. Twenty-five years of developing strip-malls has taken its toll and their lack of vision will become a permanent mark on our community. You may not live here, but I do and have for 39 years.

You seemed to have some problem with the petition we sponsored. This was for informational purposes, a market survey to see how many people cared about preservation. Whether the signers lived in Denton is irrelevant for this type of petition because the Denton market is much larger than the city limits. It was carefully crafted to not make demands, but suggestions. I was astounded by the results. I have run many petition drives over the years and have never even remotely seen one as successful. Over 10,000 signatures, and to my knowledge, all honest signatures, just asking that historic preservation be considered. There is a statistical breakdown below of the petition signers.

69% live in Denton
of the 31% remaining from outside Denton
50% were from Denton County.

the age breakdown is as follows:
69% aged 18-29
23% aged 30-59
3% aged 60-90
4% - 17 or under

Of the Denton residents of voting age the number of signers is still greater than the number of persons I ever recall voting in a local election.

The development is still not a "done deal". Sure they have torn down the old buildings, but they are having some problems with their permits and their flawed site plan. They tore down the old buildings before they have permission to build the new ones. I believe that the city staff will recommend denial of their variance application because they have ignored some of our city subdivision regulations and development codes in designing their project.

This is a neighborhood preservation issue. I can understand that if it's not your neighborhood, you might not care one way or another what happens, but please, don't denigrate our efforts to try to hang onto some vestiges of our community culture, just because some people you don't like hang out there. I ignore them and you should too.

Mike Cochran
SFS